Singapore Democrats

I hate to say this but I think you are wasting your time chasing a change of heart from the MM.

Despite his greatness, the legacy he will leave behind will be horrific.

This is a very good letter to MM Lee. There is no animosity, just condolence for a departed loved one, and yet, a salient point is made that MM Lee has deprived of others of the same love he shared with his wife.

An excellent writeup indeed.

"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?"
Mark 8:36

I think the best thing now is opposition wins this upcoming election or PAP gives up half the seats in Parliament to foreigners. After reading the letter above, I am thoroughly shocked at his deeds. How can he be so heartless? I do not want a leader who values his power and money more than the welfare of his people. Opposition, you have my support in this upcoming election. A good government will not keep sucking money, and more money from the people. A good government will also let people speak out without fear of being arrested. That is called truly democracy. Even primary school kids are very unhappy about the present PAP and called the party all sorts of names. One example I have heard them calling the party is 'Pay And Pay' party. Even the kids can understand what is considered a good government.

As Democrats, we have to optimistic in the goodness of humanity. That people are generally good and just have taken the wrong path. Unless they believe that they are gods and are above 'lesser' men. In death, we are all alike.

This is not an attempt to pour cold water on this effort, but just an opportunity for me to say this: Lee Kuan Yew's top priority has always been to save face, and that will supercede all considerations for doing the right thing.

And of course this is for all those who think what a great mother and wife she is. There are other mothers, wives and daughters who need your thoughts and considerations too.

I understand that when Said Zahari was detained his wife had just given birth to their daughter. When he was finally released 17 years later the said child was already in a JC. Imagine growing up without fatherly love and guidance - an 'orphan' who's father lived in solitary confinement.

Said Zahari's 'crime'? - He went against LKY. Did he advocate violence? No evidence of that. Was he charged in a court of law? Not that we know of. Did he miss his wife and family? You bet.

Was his 'heart heavy with sorrow and grief' all those years? Much, much more I guess because 17 years of grieving is a very, very long time indeed.

To love and care for one's immediately family is a common human trait. But one of the hallmarks of a true leader lies in his ability to also feel for those outside his immediate family. That makes a lot of difference.

My heart bleats for all those who had suffered unjustifiably under the PAP regime.

Virture of: 谦和礼让、严己宽人

谦和礼让、严己宽人”，主要是指为人处事要谦虚、诚实，宏宽大度，对自己要求严格，对他人宽厚、能容人。

But I guess as MM Lee's teenage years were with the Japanese and then later westernize (read individualistic), this virtue will be hard to cultivate.

Another excellent piece by none other than Dr Chee. The man who has been called all kinds of names by the ruthless PAP Regime, persecuted in all ways and yet still harbors no ill-will towards his perpetrators.

Speaks alot of character in Dr Chee. This is the kind of leader we need to propel our country forward. Not the self-serving type of regime that we currently have.

Dr Chee, indeed you are a wise man. Your wife, children will be very proud of you. You are definitely on the right side of history.

Let me quote the EX British PM Tony Blair who said that 'It is better to lose and do the right thing, than to win and do the wrong thing'.

I'm certain no one here believes for a moment that mere entreaties can soften the heart of a dyed-in-the-wool tyrant. Half a century of unmitigated despotism is proof enough of the indelible stain he will take with him to his grave. If anyone still harbours such a delusion, I have I genuine piece of London Bridge you can have for a very good price.

There will be no Epiphany, no flash of enlightened understanding, no road to Damascus moment for Lee. That is his reward for caring only for his own and laying waste to all else. CSJ's letter simply puts down a reminder of the overt cruelty LKY has inflicted, and continues to inflict, on anyone who disagrees with his views. The letter omits to mention the grievous loss of children unborn as a result of his eugenics campaign. That, amongst the litany of his other sins, is probably his greatest evil.

I cannot believe how delusional you people are. The level of sarcasm that you can describe such a letter as without animosity is testament to the fact that you are living in your own world. This letter was written with the sole intent to mock the grieving, with no respect for the deceased. I do not personally support any political party; and in the eyes of an objective reader, all I see is a skewed and fallacy-ridden piece with a deeply political agenda. This is exactly why the opposition is what it is today: low. If the opposition had actual objective views and a better solution to run Singapore, would you not think Singaporeans would vote?

I understand everyone who reads this site has been comprehensively indoctrinated and would object violently to my comments with even more fallacious statements, but I just had to speak my mind given the complete lack of respect displayed. What a shame.

One might say the same of you. That you can read animosity and mockery in Mr Chee's letter. Where is that? Where's the "complete lack of respect"? In this paragraph? "But while I commiserate with you on your loss, I would be remiss if I did not take this opportunity to tell you, if you don't already know, how much pain you have inflicted on your political opponents and whose families you have torn apart, the same kind of pain that you presently feel."

@josephtay

If you could point out some of the fallacies in this 'fallacy-ridden' piece, we would be happy to debate this with you.

But simply calling something fallacy-ridden does not make it so.

Josephtay's is one way to view Chee's intention.

But does he, myself, and the rest of us, who haven't had to undergo Chee's sufferings, the ones with the empathy needed to judge?

Perhaps, Chee has suffered enough to qualify him for empathy with the likes of Lim Hock Siew and others, to want now, that LKY is himself having pain and showing humaneness, to hopefully bring forth from him more of such human kindness that might make him compensate as much as can still be done for those pains he caused them.

A desperate appeal for help at a rare timely moment from a usually tough man!

不要以小人之心度君子之腹.

I guess you could also allege Jesus was hypocritical when He said: "Father, forgive them for they do not know what they're doing."

I guess you must have put yourself in Dr Chee's shoes and imagined that if were the one on the receiving end of MM's infamous knuckle-duster you would be overwhelmed with animosity. To hate your 'enemy' seems natural; and to love your 'enemy' is surely hypocritical by your standard.

The truth is you're not Jesus; you're not Dr Chee. The fact that you think you'd not be able to forgive does not mean the rest of the human race must share your spirituality.

If, for some reason, MM is touched by Dr Chee's letter and suddenly empathizes with victims of his "aggression" this letter would not be construed as "mocking the grieving" but an exhortation filled with love and compassion.

Do not underestimate MM. He may not share the same sentiments as you do when reading the letter. Aren't you aware that MM has been chanting "ma-ra-na-tha" ?

"This letter was written with the sole intent to mock the grieving, with no respect for the deceased."

josephtay, I would be very interested in your views about "respect for the living" and whether you think Lee Kuan Yew and his deceased wife have ever displayed that quality.

Opposition has actual solutions but they were not able to present them out to us because of our already biased media. Our biased media only published stuff about PAP and what they have done. Singaporeans for the past decades didn't vote for opposition for fear of PAP going after them in all sorts of ways. They were too scared of PAP. A good leader will not induce fear in the people but have true respect from the people. My parents fear PAP, not respect them. They are scared of PAP arresting them if they say anything bad about PAP. Tell me, is this the way a good government should be? Please look at all the hidden truths that were not able to get published out the way stuff about PAP were published out before you even start commenting.

To Dr. Chee,

I do not think your 'grievances'are in the same league as those of Chia Thye Poh or Lim Hock Siew. Chia Thye Poh or Lim Hock Siew were locked up without trial. You are a bankrupt after the due process of law. Therefore, by putting your resulted misfortune on the same platform as that of Chia Thye Poh or Lim Hock Siew, you have trivalised their claim that they were not given their day in court.

James Bong

Due process of what law? You mean the law that was vandalised by the cabinet and the law administered by kangaroo courts?

In every country, there are laws for order so that we know what and where the lines are. This is transparency.
There are good laws and bad laws. If we strongly believe that some laws are unjust, then we should make it an issue to galvanise the people to overturn those laws.
The so-called 'kangaroo court' had directed former Cabinet Minister S. Danabalan to pay damages to Opposition Chiam See Tong.
In any case, one compelling evidence that it is not a court of kangaroo is that the judges are people who do not need those positions. In fact, on the financial side, they are probably better off in the private sector.

James Bong

On the suings of Chee and the law, we may assume with James that "due process" had been executed and yet suspect similarities of Chee's case with Chia Thye Poh's and others.

LKY claimed that he had sued for only the altruistic reason of the need to uphold the integrity of government.

If so, then all that was needed was for him to win the case.

Was it also necessary to demand for, and when that was conceded, insist on being paid "aggravated damages", with the consequence of bankrupting Chee?

Lee could have, when given the case and thus vindicated, fulfilling already his stated intention, shown magnanimity. What was his motive for "going to the bitter end"?

LKY does not have the guts to read CSJ's letter....no way.
Likely he has directed his aides long ago to discard any letter or email from his current arch-enemy Dr CSJ.

His wife recently stated when she could talk "We have done nothing wrong but some people said we had!"

LKY said recently whatever he did through the years although tough and "cruel" was
for the National Good (Marcos, Ceausescu and Suharto also said something similar).

Both LKY & KGC are in total denial of the truth. Their minds were set long ago that they had done only good for the country.

I am not concerned whether Lee Kuan Yew is magnanimous or otherwise. My point is that Chee Soon Juan's case is different from that of Chia Thye Poh or Lim Hock Siew, in that Chee Soon Juan is a financial bankrupt after due legal process on defamation issues whereas Chia Thye Poh and Lim Hock Siew were denied their day in court to defend against the Government's allegations. Chee Soon Juan, by putting himself on the same platform as Chia Thye Poh and Lim Hock Siew, has devalued the their case for a fair trial or review.

James Bong

But SDP's stand implies that Chee's plight is worse than Chia's and others like Chia.

He has suffered more from his case having been arguable in court, enabling the "kangaroos" to have an arguable case in court to give the judgment to the side on which the butter is spread.

In the case of Chia and others, no court case was conveivable nor had, and so their innocence would be easier to plead.

All this, of course, assumes the correctness of SDP's premiss of "absence of rule of law".

So you believe one sin is greater than another sin and one's sorrow is deeper and more hurting than another person's sorrows.

In your view, LKY losing his spouse and LSL losing his mother is the biggest sorrow for the nation? Is it a national sorrow or personal capacity since Mrs Lee does not hold any official governmental title. She has been travelling with the Lees on government visits so often. The biggest row is when the SIA plane was modified to fetch her back from UK during one of those visit. On whose expenses and why?

To Dr Chee,

Forgive me for being so direct, but I am really disgusted by this letter. Speaking as someone who has limited knowledge over political matters, I am surprised that you would even think of involving politics into the matter of Mdm Lee's death. When someone dies I do not automatically think of how I can use it to my political advantage, or whether I should rub salt into those who are grieving over the loss of their loved ones. And yes, that includes my enemies. It's sad when someone dies. I'm sure that applies to every culture and religion around the world.

MM Lee may have caused trouble to you previously, I do not know, but by critisizing him when his wife has just passed away simply reflects bad character. Surely a politician such as yourself upholds the basic human nature of compassion? It really disturbs me to see a politician using such mean tatics to disturb the opposition. It's almost as if you two were little kids backstabbing each other at every possible moment for the sake of candy. There really isn't anything decent about using the tit-for-tat approach here. It's time to grow up don't you think?

Next time I suggest that when you send ur condolences to someone, you do it sincerely, and by that I do not mean that you simply include the word "sincere" into your letter. Surely you can do it without including all the snide hints of how MM lee deserved it (which is what i gathered from the letter). Either do it sincerely, or don't bother at all. It's only human.

And to all those commenting about the letter, surely one of you can see my point. Why be so concerned with politics when someone dies?

Surely, Chee isn't saying to Lee that Lee "deserved it"?

More like "I know how you suffer. Now, those like Chia Thye Poh had suffered likewise, only much, much more. I know, for I myself have also suffered. So, please, pleae, empathise....."

By the way, the plight of persons like Chia, etc., I hope, isn't just "politics" for you. It deserves your speechlessness also?

To speechless...

I tend to agree with you IF Mrs LKY was just an innocent housewife who had nothing to do with LKY's ruthless/cruel decisions to use the ISA against so many innocent do-gooders esp the 9 catholic workers whose misfortune was being active Catholics and to support JBJ.

But recall what KGC when still alive some years back, said directly in the video shown abt her life in CNA and local news recently.....with her husband LKY by her side she blurted " But some people accuse US of doing bad things even when WE had not done bad things!"
Notice she used WE and US and not LKY nor my husband! This is her freudian slip whether she realised it or not.
So, Francis Seow was dead-on and LKY also confirmed...KGC @ Mrs LKY is part and parcel of LKY's decision-making apparatus.
She must surely have either prodded or given the green light to LKY to go ahead with Ops Coldstore and Spectrum and damn the consequences.
LKY would NOT have gone ahead with the 2 Ops had she stopped him! That is the sad reality and so she is equally guilty and responsible.
That makes them the real Evil Duo abusing the ISA.

The commentator of Mon 11 Oct, 10.07pm says what I wish to write, and I am glad that he/she wrote it, better than I would have: Condolences should be sincere and not be used as a leverage for other objectives as use of such leverage indicates a motive, other than a sincere one from the heart, for sending the condolences.
James Bong

Max,
I seem to remember, in his eulogy, Lee's praising his late wife for being a good judge of character, etc., but saying also that she wasn't as good on politics.

I took that to mean that, perhaps, she had tried to moderate him, perhaps she had tried to dissuade him from doing precisely those "nasty things".

What do you think?

Mere speculation.....it could also mean that LKY is now guilty-conscious that Ops Coldstore&Spectrum were bad political decisions his wife had encouraged him to proceed with.
If only she had not supported them...they would have been well-loved by the citizens today.
But it was their own personal survival and survival with all the power and wealth trappings...(Vincent Cheng was correct they were afraid of a Catholic-led overthrow just as happened in Phillipines led by Cardinal Sin in 1986 (Op Spectrum also in 1986))
No....I totally agree with Francis Seow that KGC was the Empress Dowager and LKY needed the green light from her in major decisions.
Don't forget KGC was smarter in school and Univ than him and he looked up to her in awe.....the only person smarter than me!
Surely he will take counsel from her that his decision was correct and to be implemented?

If Mrs. Lee Kuan Yew was as guilty as Mr. Lee on those alleged offences, then why send condolences? Why the hypocrisy or inconsistency? It is precisely such attitude that damns SDP, and if SDP is made up of such supporters, then there is no future for SDP.
James Bong

Heh, brings a smile to the lips to read all these sincere messages purporting to be oh-so concerned that a sweet, harmless housewife has been sorely treated by the less than effusive songs of praise here. How monstrous that anyone should dare think her a Dragon Lady, every bit as culpable as her unloved husband for the merciless cruelties of half a century. Why aren't you callous swine weeping and rending your clothes at the irreplaceable loss of this media-proclaimed 'heroine' who has never been a government employee but was accorded a 'private' State funeral complete with gun carriage and coerced sympathisers lining the road as if it were Kim Il Sung's final trip to Hades? You 99.87% of the population who looked on with total indifference and/or bewilderment are a disgrace to the nation!

And now the renegade Dr Chee has the temerity to mention the agony of the detainees at the hands of the despot! For heaven's sakes, is nothing sacred? Surely LKY's pain at the loss of his mate of 62 years far, far outweighs that of a nonentity like Said Zahari who first sight of his daughter was as a newborn and whose next was when she was a fully-grown adult 18 years later when he emerged from imprisonment without charge or trial? How could Dr Lim Hock Siew's battering at the hands of his captors for 23 years ever compare to Lee Hsien Loong's loss of his mother after all the wonderful times they had together with the world as their oyster? And the torture of Lim Chin Siong till he broke and attempted suicide in captivity? Ah, an insignificant matter. He was a loser anyway....

Yes indeed. All loss is equal but some losses are more equal than others.

The lesson to be learnt here is not a new one: "If you want respect, in life or in death, then you bloody well earn that respect."

Like it or not, there are many Singaporeans who don't think that respect is an elite entitlement, but more pertinently, that respect is owed to your oppressor because they are your oppressor.

That's the problem that seems to need to be settled here.

at first it read well; i was taken in by the various references. on reflection, it was untruthful. if one goes to jail for his/her beliefs, it is a price that must have been reckoned. at what point does one give up his/her beliefs because the 'free & living' value far outweighs any ideals one may have aforehand - that begs the question. nelson mandela had a cause for justice that was clear. the case again lky is not only unclear; the results today bear witness to the rightness of the man's actions. whether he was perfect - that begs another argument. no one is. so no one does. hence the opposition. thence the price. what did those who were imprisoned, isolated, exiled, confronted, hope to achieve? what other results apart from the society we now have can the opposition (generic) ask for? for those who paid the price of their freedom to oppose, we thank them. nothing more. and neither should they expect otherwise. and i know nelson mandela must be laughing - singapore has achieved far more than he himself set out to do for africa. what exactly are we opposing? progress? prosperity? peace?

why was she given such a grand burial when she did not even hold an official title? for those who look at her death with indifference, it is not that they are cold-hearted, but the reaction is the result of years of being oppressed by the government and its policies and the way the government works. Yes, LKY suffered pain when he lost his mate, but doesn't the rest of the people who suffered in LKY's hands suffer too? They are humans like him but were their pain from being separated from their families and loved ones taken into consideration? He has feelings and emotions, but don't they? We sympathised with him on the loss of his wife but who sympathised with them when they went thru the same agony??? They suffered too, but for the sake of true democracy, and freedom and for an authoritative system. What we have now is an authoritarian system where people are being oppressed and end up Fearing the government, not Respect! Is this a characteristic of a good government??? I understand what Dr Chee was saying in the article above. On one hand, he totally understood what LKY was going through and as a normal human being, he just wanted to send his condolences that he understood the pain of losing a loved one. On the other hand, he also wanted to let LKY know that the pain he was feeling, was also what those people felt. So those out there criticizing Dr Chee, please understand what happened in the past and see things from his point of view and think things more thoroughly before criticizing again. And please see and learn the TRUTH before even start to criticize Dr Chee and SDP!

Teck Siew,

LKY himself has said to the effect that, now that survival concerns are less urgent and we have reached this level of prosperity, Singaporeans should learn to cultivate a more gracious way of life. Also, now that we have survived, we should ask what we survive as and for.

He himself would not say that our "progress" proves the rightness of his past acts. Indeed, he even confessed recently that he had done wrong and nasty things.

One of those wrong things could be bringing up people to become such a being as you, taking material prosperity to the be-all, not concerned at all about "justice and equality", etc., which are among the ingredients of a life worth surving for.

one further thought, Teck Siew, since you mentioned Mandela.

When he visited us some years ago, he was delivering an official lecture, and seated before him were Ministers, MPs. etc., including the then CJ.

A question was asked him during Q and A pertaining the supremacy of "rule of law".

He quoted a personal incident in reply. In his capacity as leader of his country, he had had to repond to a court judgment that opposed his executive decision.

He stressed that he countermanded his own decision immediately. (He meant to say that it was precisely such a democracy he had been to jail to establish!)

I recall our then CJ forcing a smile. I think he understood.

I summarise the two key issues that one other person and I had raised on Dr. Chee's letter:
1. That Dr. Chee should not use the sorrow of Mr. Lee to leverage his political agenda. When one extends condolences, it is done sincerely from the heart, and that is it. Condolences that have attachment are an abuse of the true meaning of ‘condolences’ … it is hypocrisy. In other words, either extend the condolences to Mr. Lee or let Mr. Lee know that he (Dr. Chee) understands what he (Mr. Lee) is going through because he (Mr. Lee) had put him (Dr. Chee) in such a grieved situation, but not both.
2. That Dr. Chee should not equate his dilemma with those of Dr. Lim Hock Siew or Mr. Chia Thye Poh. Dr. Lim and Mr. Chia were prevented to be with their love ones (i.e. they were detained without trial) for their political views. Dr. Chee is unable to travel overseas without approval from the Official Assignee because he is a bankrupt. Dr. Chee, in putting his dilemma on the same platform as those of Dr. Lim and Mr. Chia, is devaluing the grievances of Dr. Lim and Mr. Chia.
As the discussion on the blog went along, some claimed that Mrs. Lee had a hand in Mr. Lee’s alleged offences, and if that being the case, then absolutely no condolences should be offered in the first place. Just come forth and damn the woman, or if you have some sense of decency, just keep your anger to yourself, and perhaps try to manage it in a more constructive way.
To Dr. Chee: I recall having read that Mr. Lee paid you a great compliment, and if my memory serves me right, he said something to the effect that you did not have to do the kind of things you did that got you into trouble, and yet would have your voice heard. That is a good advice, and I wish you follow the advice, rather than being edged on by some of your supporters whose views I have read in this blog that are clearly out to score political points and/or exact revenge.
James Bong

Mdm Kwa Geok Choo is a amazing woman, a friend , a wife , a mother,a grandmother, a boss, she is absolutely fantastic. This letter is really unjust. It inflicted indirectly a lot of pains upon the family."Politics" itself is dirty enough. Kindly don't 'Rojak' it.
Sore loser...

Jeff

The crux of the matter is not whether ones should be separated from their loved ones. If a person were to commit an offence/crime, s/he would need to face the consequences of her/his actions. That is the point.